Flashback Friday - Wrath of Ashardalon
Love it or hate it? Do you still play it?
Wrath of Ashardalon the second game in a series of Dungeon & Dragons board games relased by Wizards of the Coast in 2010 - 2011. The first one, Castle Ravenloft, caused quite a stir. It was a D & D fully cooperative dungeon crawl that didn't a Dungeon Master. It had a simple, yet effective, AI and a highy accessible rule set. Wizards of the Coast followed up with Wrath of Ashardelon, which included campaign rules, in Febuary of 2011; and finally Legend of Drizzt in October of 2011.
We have since seen many more fully cooperative dungeon crawls published, from Space Cadets: Away Missions to Dungeon Degenerates. With so many to choose from, has Wrath of Ashardalon fallen by the wayside, or is it still played?
So what do you think? Do you love it or hate it? Do you still play it?
More on Dungeons & Dragons Wrath of Ashardalon
I could have got a lot of play out of this, but with Ravenloft, Drizzt, Temple of Elemental Evil and now Tomb of Annihilation as well it's just massive overkill. The much vaunted crossover between sets never really came to anything in practice and the games are too similar.
So you might as well pick one and squeeze all the playtime you can out of it, rather than spreading the love and being unsatisfied with a whole bunch of near-identical titles. If I was going to pick one, though, it'd be this over all the others just for its old-school flavour and simple campaign rules.
I’ve actually gutted my older games in this series. Lots of the minis are Frostgrave wandering monsters now.
Michael Barnes wrote: Temple of Elemental Evil and Wrath of Ashardalon
Tomb of Annihilationobsoleted Tomb of Annihilation, Ravenloft, and Drizzt.
FTFY
Good point on the figures though. These boxes are stonking value for money if you want basic but functional fantasy miniatures for pretty much anything at all.
I agree that WotC never fully realized the integration between these titles. It wouldn't have been hard....the fan work for Ravenloft and Ashardalon is fantastic.
I guess it's simply a changing of the times. For the kids in our house Ravenloft, Keeps on Borderlands, Temple of Elemental Evils aren't really fantasy places to game as they were for me. Silver Towers, Shadespire, NightVault, Hammerhal...that's where heroics take place.
On top of all this, I can think of at least 3 other dungeon crawls I’d rather play over any DDAS game.
Josh Look wrote: I never played the newer games because they’re so reliant on campaign structure, something the hobby desperately needs to see go extinct.
Totally agreed on this point. I've never understood the hobby's obsession with campaigns.
I just broke this game out last week to play with my son, although it had been a while since we played it last. We had a blast. The game ran a little long (my son tends to play VERY cautiously, which makes for slow going). We got to the final chamber and drew the Rage Drake. All our best attacks were used up, no healing surges left, and maybe 1 or 2 hit points each, so it was looking pretty grim. Thankfully, the quirks of the tile draw had created this sort of loop with a wall running down the center. We ran that poor Rage Drake around in circles while peppering it with ranged attacks, staying just out of its attack range, and squeaked out a victory.
Somehow, this game almost always delivers a tense, close final battle. I do wish the artwork on the tiles and cards was a bit more evocative, but that's a minor complaint. Some guy on the internet used to sell individual components from all these games, so I've managed to cobble together all the parts needed for Ravenloft and Drizzt, so I'm set for life on content. I've never played either of the new games in the series.
These still fill a niche for me. An hour long, dead simple, no campaign to futz with (amen to that, Josh), these are dungeon crawls that I need in my life. Still really like them, I should crack them out again soon. Ashardalon is my favorite one too, so I'd totally be up for that one.
But sadly it was always a run and avoid as much as possible type of game. That flies in the face of what I see a dungeon crawl being, especially with D&D attached to it.
It's more a game of punishment and avoiding the harshest bits for a phyrric victory.
I want to like them far more than I actually do like them.
The argument that they are the ultimate sandbox only holds so much water to me. It's nice that I can buy these for a relatively cheap sum in order to get the minis and throw the rest away, yet that makes for a sad product as published.
I really enjoy these games and admire their design. We were basically given a Heroquest-style easy to play D&D game with procedurally generated content. A true co-op that did not require a DM, so everyone could have fun and no one had to worry about the balance of playing a DM as trying to win vs. making sure everyone had a good time. These came during an era where we did not have a large selection of amazing new dungeon crawl games. The fact that this came out from the Hasbro umbrella--a fully, all-in-the-box hobbyist smorgasbord of goodies--makes it all the more fantastic.
I have the first three games in the series and I don't feel the need for more of them. But they've succeeded with kids AND with hobbyists. They're crisp, full of action, and play in just over an hour. That's also insane for a game of this style.
I would not own these as my *only* dungeon crawl game. They do, in fact, have their limitations on many levels, limitations that are inherent to the design goals, being honest. But I'll be damned if I ever sell mine (life-altering disaster notwithstanding.)
Honestly, I'd be totally into a Desert of Desolation game, if anyone ever made one.
Jackwraith wrote: the optimal strategy was "avoid and survive", rather than "engage and conquer."
This is the optimal strategy in most D&D role-playing games I've played. Hack-n-slash is more in the domain of video game rpg's.
ChristopherMD wrote:
Jackwraith wrote: the optimal strategy was "avoid and survive", rather than "engage and conquer."
This is the optimal strategy in most D&D role-playing games I've played. Hack-n-slash is more in the domain of video game rpg's.
I've only played 1st & 2nd edition AD&D, so maybe the strategies have changed since that time.
But this was not our experience unless necessary. Beholders, drow, gelatinous cubes, mind flayers, wraiths, and other foes who being in direct conflict with was the quickest way to an early grave, should be avoided.
But avoiding conflict in general in a dungeon? I find that assertion spurious.
"Ahhh a skeleton! Run!"
No effing way.
Half the monsters in these DDAS games should and would be easily defeated by a capable exploring party in the RPG.
[Edit]
That's not to say that making a skeleton more challenging is a bad thing. I think it's great TBH. But there is just far to much feeling that these are games of "Run the gauntlet". Far too sadistic. Like having Player killer DM's delighting in your masochistic hope of having a good time eventually in their dungeon.
Josh Look wrote: They’re resource management games when you get down to it. I think I was ok with that when they first came out, not sure I can say that I am now.
In that regard almost all dungeon crawls are resource management games. Managing your hit points, the items you start with, the items you find along the way. If some or all of you run out of that most precious resource (HP), it's game over.
Ken B. wrote:
Josh Look wrote: They’re resource management games when you get down to it. I think I was ok with that when they first came out, not sure I can say that I am now.
In that regard almost all dungeon crawls are resource management games. Managing your hit points, the items you start with, the items you find along the way. If some or all of you run out of that most precious resource (HP), it's game over.
That’s true, and if I’m being honest with myself, it’s not one of my favorite genres for that reason.
I think the bigger issue with the DDAS games is that they’re the kind of co-ops where it’s all punishment and little reward. They ask the player, “How long can your resources hold out while we repeatedly kick you in the dick?”