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Flashback Friday - Eclipse - Love It or Hate It? Do You Still Play It?
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16 Aug 2019 12:13 - 16 Aug 2019 13:51 #300845
by ubarose
It is a 4X game in which you must lead your...
Love it or hate it? Do you still play it?
Eclipse designed by Touko Tahkokallio was, released in 2011.
It is a 4X game in which you must lead your civilization to prevail over the others. When it was initially released it was heralded as a streamlined and refined Twilight Imperium 3 "killer."
Michael Barnes wrote:
This game is amazing, it’s an innovative and highly evolved design that represents the very best of both American and European design concepts. So fucking what if there’s not some lame ass back story that tells you the history of the fish folks of Flingflarn or whatever. So what if there’s not piles of cards that tell you how to interact with other players. Tell your own stories and bring your own politics, and this game is just as bloody, ruthless, and violent as any classic DoaM game, but with a fraction of the bulk. It’s a bonus that the game also features an absolutely brilliant economic system that makes for lots of interesting decisions and tough choices. My Hellfire Club crew universally proclaimed TI3 dead after we played this.
On this site Eclipse was a divisive game with some people praising highly while others reviled it.
This was noted by Charlie Theel noted in his blog:
I know you're all groaning but Eclipse is one of my favorite games and I'm willing to stand by that until I die.
Which camp are you in. Love it or hate it? Do you still play it.
Last edit: 16 Aug 2019 13:51 by ubarose.
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16 Aug 2019 12:42 #300846
by Michael Barnes
Replied by Michael Barnes on topic Flashback Friday - Eclipse - Love It or Hate It? Do You Still Play It?
I’ll just open this up with Eclipse > TI.
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16 Aug 2019 12:45 #300847
by hotseatgames
Replied by hotseatgames on topic Flashback Friday - Eclipse - Love It or Hate It? Do You Still Play It?
I played this game one time, and was so thoroughly bored by it that I can't recall any part of it.
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16 Aug 2019 12:47 #300848
by charlest
Replied by charlest on topic Flashback Friday - Eclipse - Love It or Hate It? Do You Still Play It?
One of my favorite games. Played close to 30 times over the years. Still remains a relevant piece of design work that's extremely clever in how it utilizes economic systems in a very easy and fluid manner that requires little to no math.
What I particularly appreciate is how easy it is to jump back into this game, especially for its weight. The player boards and user interface have all information intuitively displayed and it really leads you through its systems.
Really enjoyed my last play of this in May and am looking forward to the new edition.
What I particularly appreciate is how easy it is to jump back into this game, especially for its weight. The player boards and user interface have all information intuitively displayed and it really leads you through its systems.
Really enjoyed my last play of this in May and am looking forward to the new edition.
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16 Aug 2019 13:11 #300849
by Shellhead
Replied by Shellhead on topic Flashback Friday - Eclipse - Love It or Hate It? Do You Still Play It?
Is Eclipse the game where both the winner and loser in a combat get to draw vp chits? If so, that is precisely why I will never even try Eclipse.
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16 Aug 2019 13:42 #300850
by dysjunct
Replied by dysjunct on topic Flashback Friday - Eclipse - Love It or Hate It? Do You Still Play It?
Tried playing the app version and decided that I couldn't be bothered after about 10 minutes.
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16 Aug 2019 14:14 - 16 Aug 2019 14:15 #300851
by charlest
It's based on what you KILL. You know, like other Euro games.
Replied by charlest on topic Flashback Friday - Eclipse - Love It or Hate It? Do You Still Play It?
Shellhead wrote: Is Eclipse the game where both the winner and loser in a combat get to draw vp chits? If so, that is precisely why I will never even try Eclipse.
It's based on what you KILL. You know, like other Euro games.
Last edit: 16 Aug 2019 14:15 by charlest.
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16 Aug 2019 14:20 #300852
by Shellhead
It resembles a participation trophy. A Euro way to keep a game artificially close.
Replied by Shellhead on topic Flashback Friday - Eclipse - Love It or Hate It? Do You Still Play It?
charlest wrote:
Shellhead wrote: Is Eclipse the game where both the winner and loser in a combat get to draw vp chits? If so, that is precisely why I will never even try Eclipse.
It's based on what you KILL. You know, like other Euro games.
It resembles a participation trophy. A Euro way to keep a game artificially close.
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16 Aug 2019 14:52 - 16 Aug 2019 14:53 #300853
by charlest
That is definitely true, however, psychologically it creates a huge incentive for combat and interaction. My plays of Eclipse have included much more combat than my games of TI3/4.
Replied by charlest on topic Flashback Friday - Eclipse - Love It or Hate It? Do You Still Play It?
Shellhead wrote:
charlest wrote:
Shellhead wrote: Is Eclipse the game where both the winner and loser in a combat get to draw vp chits? If so, that is precisely why I will never even try Eclipse.
It's based on what you KILL. You know, like other Euro games.
It resembles a participation trophy. A Euro way to keep a game artificially close.
That is definitely true, however, psychologically it creates a huge incentive for combat and interaction. My plays of Eclipse have included much more combat than my games of TI3/4.
Last edit: 16 Aug 2019 14:53 by charlest.
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16 Aug 2019 15:02 #300854
by Michael Barnes
Replied by Michael Barnes on topic Flashback Friday - Eclipse - Love It or Hate It? Do You Still Play It?
The point isn’t balance or a participation trophy. The point is that these kinds of games have a “Cold War” problem where combat is effectively discouraged in favor of build up. The risk of material loss too often outweighs the value of any gains. So you have people sitting on these big fleets unwilling to risk a major, potentially crippling defeat. Under the system, the risk is mitigated because you can still stay on track if you lose. The winner always gains more, regardless.
So the comments about this have always struck me as a little off...I’d much rather play a game with lots of small, impactful battles than one 6 hour one where players amass a mountain of forces and wait to see who blinks first.
So the comments about this have always struck me as a little off...I’d much rather play a game with lots of small, impactful battles than one 6 hour one where players amass a mountain of forces and wait to see who blinks first.
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16 Aug 2019 15:10 - 16 Aug 2019 15:12 #300855
by RobertB
Replied by RobertB on topic Flashback Friday - Eclipse - Love It or Hate It? Do You Still Play It?
I'm with charlest on this. I've seen a lot more fighting in Eclipse than I have in TI3/4. A lot of my TI3 experience has been 4+ hours of everybody staring at each other until someone gets bored to tears and starts a fight with their neighbor just to use that pile of stuff that they built. I think those 'participation trophies' actually make you fight.
As far as the game itself, I like Eclipse a lot. Those missiles need to be fixed (and sort of are in the first expansion). And you can get hosed on your first few tile draws just like you are in ST: Ascendancy. But I'd play it again tonight if I could get a game going.
ETA: Mr. Barnes beat me to it.
As far as the game itself, I like Eclipse a lot. Those missiles need to be fixed (and sort of are in the first expansion). And you can get hosed on your first few tile draws just like you are in ST: Ascendancy. But I'd play it again tonight if I could get a game going.
ETA: Mr. Barnes beat me to it.
Last edit: 16 Aug 2019 15:12 by RobertB.
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16 Aug 2019 16:08 - 16 Aug 2019 16:30 #300856
by Josh Look
Replied by Josh Look on topic Flashback Friday - Eclipse - Love It or Hate It? Do You Still Play It?
Comparisons of Eclipse to TI are dumb and demonstrate a lack of understanding of what TI is, full stop. One is ultimately a negotiation game and one is ultimately an economic one.
The comparison originates in the Eclipse designer diaries, which shows that the designers of Eclipse also do not understand TI. They set out to address what they felt were “problems” with TI, not stopping consider why those systems were in place and how they contributed to the end result. What they delivered is a game that looks like TI on the table but doesn’t play anything like it.
And thank Crom that it doesn’t, because Eclipse sucks. It has a clever UI in its handling of its economy and a killer ship design system, but the game is dry, tedious, and offers nothing to get emotionally vested in. You’re competing against systems and mechanics in Eclipse more than anything else, while TI is a much more social, negotiation based game. It’s longer, but worth it.
More combat? Who cares, it’s still boring. I’ll take TI in that area as well, I’d much rather have it occur less often, plus it carries much more weight. Neither game has good combat.
I think I played Eclipse 15 times or so, so I *get* it. But I kept searching for what the buzz was all about, what I found is that it’s nothing but hype and drinking the Kool Aid. It fucking sucks.
The comparison originates in the Eclipse designer diaries, which shows that the designers of Eclipse also do not understand TI. They set out to address what they felt were “problems” with TI, not stopping consider why those systems were in place and how they contributed to the end result. What they delivered is a game that looks like TI on the table but doesn’t play anything like it.
And thank Crom that it doesn’t, because Eclipse sucks. It has a clever UI in its handling of its economy and a killer ship design system, but the game is dry, tedious, and offers nothing to get emotionally vested in. You’re competing against systems and mechanics in Eclipse more than anything else, while TI is a much more social, negotiation based game. It’s longer, but worth it.
More combat? Who cares, it’s still boring. I’ll take TI in that area as well, I’d much rather have it occur less often, plus it carries much more weight. Neither game has good combat.
I think I played Eclipse 15 times or so, so I *get* it. But I kept searching for what the buzz was all about, what I found is that it’s nothing but hype and drinking the Kool Aid. It fucking sucks.
Last edit: 16 Aug 2019 16:30 by Josh Look.
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16 Aug 2019 16:31 #300857
by Michael Barnes
Replied by Michael Barnes on topic Flashback Friday - Eclipse - Love It or Hate It? Do You Still Play It?
Josh is quite right about the comparison. I just love throwing that grenade out there.
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16 Aug 2019 16:41 #300858
by Josh Look
Replied by Josh Look on topic Flashback Friday - Eclipse - Love It or Hate It? Do You Still Play It?
That it was baked into the hype and marketing of the game is what kills me.
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16 Aug 2019 20:14 #300861
by Kevin Klemme
Replied by Kevin Klemme on topic Flashback Friday - Eclipse - Love It or Hate It? Do You Still Play It?
I thought Eclipse was terrific at first but quickly got bored with it--it seemed to play the same every time. Sold my copy long ago.
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