Why can't I get into digital formats?

There have been several threads recently saying CDs are dead, obsolete, useless etc. (Barnes wants to burn his - apparently they are too rain soaked to do so at the moment). I understand and admit that is probably all true.

But...

I just can not grok digital only albums. For me, a huge part of music is sitting listening to an album going through the CD or record sleeve art, reading the liner notes and the lyrics when available. The carefully thought out (usually) running order. B-sides to singles. All a huge part of the experience for me.

Granted the *music* is the important part but dammit, I like the visual part too! Trent Reznor released a PDF of art when Slip was release digitally (at least IIRC it was Slip) - that was the right direction for me - but I don't think that has been done very widely - at least I am not aware of anything similiar being available the few times I have purchased digital only copies of an album. I could maybe, finally "get over it" if I had some sort of replacement. Still, even then, what about that new album smell?

I know, I know. But I just can't help it.

It is interesting I guess, because in a sense we are going backwards. I mean, Bach and Mozart didn't worry about cover art and liner notes.

Still, I just can't help but feel we are losing something with digital formats.

Now, please get off my lawn.

kthxbye.

I've actually have been moving more and more into using LP's lately. CD's? Well they are already just oversampled digital information anyway.

I like my positive waves to come at me in pure analog.

You're not bringing up the liner notes on your iPad?

Part of what kept me from making tape copies of vinyl albums back in the 80s was the loss of the album art and notes. Even CDs lost some of that because they were so much smaller. I recall hearing that bands who enriched the packaging were pirated less.

But I think the impulse purchase made while cruising down I-81 at 75mph outweighs the physical packaging, at least as far as sales numbers are concerned. Given that everyone that's pirating is doing it via the Internet these days it makes sense for the publishers to have a quick, dependable way to deliver the goods instantly.

S.

I've, reluctantly, switched over. I do really like the space it saves and that's part of why I've switched over. Living in a condo makes space very valuable. I still buy albums form local bands when they're for sale but otherwise I download (and pay) for everything these days.

I can't not pay, I just feel too guilty about it.

I really miss the linear notes. Especially on Jazz and Classical albums where the linear notes are little historical lessons with some very valuable info in them. I miss holding the physical copy but I figure it's not too long until it's just plain old not available to me at all. A matter of time.

Not only does it save space but it's an environmentally savy thing to do as well since the digital copy doesn't require manufacturing or transporting so you save all that oil and what not.
There is a sound quality issue as well with downloading, especially if you get free shit MP3's, which just don't sound very good.

It's a lost battle though. Won't be very long until all CD stores are out of business and collecting Vinyl won't be a practical way to listen to anything you want, just a collectors item that some artists make available.

I don't miss vinyl at all, though I do miss the extras, like the liner notes and that crazy dial-a-cover Led Zeppelin album. Vinyl itself sucked. Fragile as hell, potentially warped, and annoying to store. And I had to keep a penny taped to the needle arm to keep the needle from skipping.

The digital format that I object to is for comic books. I really wish I could like it, so I could scan all my comics and convert them to pdf files, then sell off my physical comics and reclaim the space currently occupied by 21 short boxes. But even the lightest iPad-type tablet can't compare with the ease and comfort of reading a comic book or even a trade paperback. I own the Avengers 40-year disc, a CD containing forty years of Avengers comics, and I still haven't gotten around to reading half the issues.

Shellhead wrote: I don't miss vinyl at all, though I do miss the extras, like the liner notes and that crazy dial-a-cover Led Zeppelin album. Vinyl itself sucked. Fragile as hell, potentially warped, and annoying to store. And I had to keep a penny taped to the needle arm to keep the needle from skipping.

The digital format that I object to is for comic books. I really wish I could like it, so I could scan all my comics and convert them to pdf files, then sell off my physical comics and reclaim the space currently occupied by 21 short boxes. But even the lightest iPad-type tablet can't compare with the ease and comfort of reading a comic book or even a trade paperback. I own the Avengers 40-year disc, a CD containing forty years of Avengers comics, and I still haven't gotten around to reading half the issues.

Oh, yea comics. Now see *there* I have an easier time. I've no idea why. Part of it is space too, as you said. But for some reason I can wrap my head around digital comics and books for that matter in a way I simply can not for music. It makes little sense but there ya go.

What would be nice with comics is if the companies* would have a pow-wow and come up with a unified standard. I am down to only 4 books a month as it is but I would go digital as soon as that happened.

*Actually screw DC

Sagrilarus wrote: You're not bringing up the liner notes on your iPad?

Part of what kept me from making tape copies of vinyl albums back in the 80s was the loss of the album art and notes. Even CDs lost some of that because they were so much smaller. I recall hearing that bands who enriched the packaging were pirated less.

But I think the impulse purchase made while cruising down I-81 at 75mph outweighs the physical packaging, at least as far as sales numbers are concerned. Given that everyone that's pirating is doing it via the Internet these days it makes sense for the publishers to have a quick, dependable way to deliver the goods instantly.

S.

The few I have purchased did not seem have any liner notes associated with them at all. Just the cover art and song list. If albums did have the liner notes associated with them, I'd be a bit less crabby about it. The last time I messed around with iTunes I sure as heck couldn't find them. *shrug*

My first 'requested' album for Xmas when I was 7 was Tommy (& Sgt. Peppers). And damned if I didn't spend a lot of time over the next decade looking through that gatefold and huge range of images that went with the music. For me, the gatefold illustrations were the _visual_ portion of the music experience. That's pretty much gone. And I'm not sure that video's on the tube are the equivelent.

Everyone loved the pullout & play-with parts of the LP jackets. Hell, sometimes they were like the adult 'pop-up books' of the time.

Heh, I had to explain again recently to my 8 year old, exactly what the purpose of my turntable was. And sadly, the thouchstone reference I used for him was to a recent museum visit where we saw and discussed an edison wax cylinder player. It's pretty sad when my '81-vintage Onkyo turntable is the cultural equivelent of an 1890's player. Then again, after 20 years of use, I guess it is. 8D

So yea, I like LP's. Fact is, my interest in old exotica & tiki pretty much _requires_ chasing lp's and ripping them down to get access to older material. A lot of music got lost and pushed off the table with the move to cd & digital.

But having said all of the above, I have to admit that my primary music listening for the last decade or more has been via mp3 heads (Squeezebox lately) pointed at my collection ripped to my media server.

The convenience of the one-button 'play random songs, genres a-e' option across the range of my collection, has pretty much watered down the "well thought out running order" experience for albums I've bought in the last 10 years. I actually have to stop and remember to sit down and listen to specific albums in a sitting or a loop. And I'm a little disturbed that I'm not instilling that experience & value into my son.

Used to be, I'd come home with a new lp or cd, and it'd be on a hard loop for days, possibly weeks. Now, it's unusual that they even get a full playthrough before they end up in the music hopper to join the Great Playlist.

I'm sitting here with a telephone in my pocket that has every David Bowie, Joy Division,and New Order album on it along with all of the good Fall and Prince ones and some other random current listening.

Fuck CDs. Physical media is so overrated. I don't miss sitting there and lovingly look at the liner notes while listening to the record. I can see the cover art on the phone, and if I want the lyrics or other material it's all online...which I can also see on my phone.

Don't be a fuddy-duddy. Hip hop _is_ music and ATMs are safe to use.

Michael Barnes wrote: I'm sitting here with a telephone in my pocket that has every David Bowie, Joy Division,and New Order album on it along with all of the good Fall and Prince ones and some other random current listening.

Fuck CDs. Physical media is so overrated. I don't miss sitting there and lovingly look at the liner notes while listening to the record. I can see the cover art on the phone, and if I want the lyrics or other material it's all online...which I can also see on my phone.

Don't be a fuddy-duddy. Hip hop _is_ music and ATMs are safe to use.

I love hip hop and I use ATMs all the time. I just feel like the mp3 format is too generic or maybe de-personalized. I love the idea of being able to have music on a device that I can take with me, I'm good there. But when I want the *experience* - that is what it feels like is being lost.

It is sort of the difference of seeing art (paintings sculpture) in person and seeing a picture of it. You just don't quite have the same experience. For me there is just some sort of je ne sais quoi I miss. The same for books and comics but honestly I can get past "it" easier there than for music. I am not sure why.

tin0men wrote: Fact is, my interest in old exotica & tiki pretty much _requires_ chasing lp's and ripping them down to get access to older material. A lot of music got lost and pushed off the table with the move to cd & digital.

That is a great point. I forgot all about that problem. There a many great albums just not available that way, especially smaller press stuff.. and not just albums but books, movies, T.V. shows...

What pisses me off most about this is I don't want to go downtown anymore. The cities we live in are changing because of this. If I go to Robson there are no books stores any more (well, there's one left now) and no music shops. Now it's all shoes and clothes. Our pubilic areas are becoming increasingly boring to visit and we all just sit around in our homes, or maybe go out but always hidden away in our giant metal machines avoiding one another as much as humanly possible.

I met some of the best girls in record shops as a kid, I don't want to meet them on line, although that time has past I guess I dont' want my son meeting them on line.

Record shops were great at promoting local bands and organizing shows.

There is more then space and pretty pictures at stake here, our culture is changing and some things are not being replaced.

I thought concerts were the experience side of music. Do people have concerts in their pockets now? Or are they just happy to see me?

I was in this place about 3 years ago, and I've since switched over to purely digital purchases. It felt like the end of an age back then, but now I barely mind at all. The ONLY time I listen to CDs at all is in the car, and that maybe accounts for about 15% of the music I listen to. I recently laundered my iPod, but if I still had that ol' girl around, I'd listen to even MORE digital music. My CDs now basically just exist as an object for my son to pull off of a rack in our apartment. I still use them, but man they take up a lot of room, they deteriorate, they are a big headache.

I do miss the days of cool packaging. Does anyone remember "The Information" by Beck? That album came with stickers with which you could design your own album art, as well as a DVD of music videos. Unfortunately, those didn't really move the physical version in any meaningful way. I don't think it was a particularly big hit. I also really CD sleeves like Tool has made in past. But really, the only big loss is that I don't know lyrics QUITE how I did before.

As for the death of the album as an artform, that's complete crap. You listen to music however you choose. I almost NEVER use shuffle features. No one is stopping you from listening to something beginning to end. What we do have now is the ability to shift an album's mood by reordering tracks, adding b-sides, etc. I have one playlist for U2's The Joshua Tree that adds about 8 b-sides and makes it into a completely different double-length album. It's not as good as the original, but it does let me listen to songs I really love in a different context, and that's pretty cool. Has anyone tried the Radiohead "OK Computer/In Rainbows" playlist? Look it up, put it in your iTunes, and try it out. Who cares if its not what the artist intended? We can still listen the old way, and that's usually what I do, since it's actually better. But don't say that the idea of the "complete album" is dead. We changed, the album didn't.

JonJacob wrote:

tin0men wrote: Fact is, my interest in old exotica & tiki pretty much _requires_ chasing lp's and ripping them down to get access to older material. A lot of music got lost and pushed off the table with the move to cd & digital.

That is a great point. I forgot all about that problem. There a many great albums just not available that way, especially smaller press stuff.. and not just albums but books, movies, T.V. shows...

What pisses me off most about this is I don't want to go downtown anymore. The cities we live in are changing because of this. If I go to Robson there are no books stores any more (well, there's one left now) and no music shops. Now it's all shoes and clothes. Our pubilic areas are becoming increasingly boring to visit and we all just sit around in our homes, or maybe go out but always hidden away in our giant metal machines avoiding one another as much as humanly possible.

I met some of the best girls in record shops as a kid, I don't want to meet them on line, although that time has past I guess I dont' want my son meeting them on line.

Record shops were great at promoting local bands and organizing shows.

There is more then space and pretty pictures at stake here, our culture is changing and some things are not being replaced.

Indeed! Well said. I suppose one could point o facetube* as the new way of promoting local acts. Honestly I am trying to not be all grampa Simpson with an onion on my belt but I just can't help it!

As far as live music, that is a different kettle of fish. If bands no longer toured and simply performed in a warehouse and piped that out via facetube** I would decry that as well.

*yes I know

**yes, I still know